Mini Talon QuadPlane Conversion

Nice Greg, bird needs 4 quad motors Lol

Nice Talon! :smile:

I’m a bit surprised the old ESC was thermalling out. I suppose it depends on how much it draws in cruise as well, but even at 15A or so I’d have thought it wouldn’t thermal cutout. Some ESC’s can be inefficient as well if there’s no proper QC on them. It only takes one under spec FET to cause it. I remember the first prototype we made of the MT QP (which is in our D2 Video as well) that only had 5x those dinky little 4g 20A esc’s…surprisingly it all worked for about 4-5 flights, but then their 20AWG cables started melting through the fuselage :slight_smile:

1 Like

Jeff, I´m now trying to find new esc for my VTOL project for unsync issues, do you have references about this ones? https://hobbyking.com/en_us/dys-40amp-mini-opto-blheli-multi-rotor-electronic-speed-controller-blheli-firmware-sn40a.html?___store=en_us , Thank´s.

Hi to all!
Got my Mini Talon Kit today.
Now I will also start to build a Quadplane in your “aamadeuss” style with the quadrotors on the wings.
Do you have a little build log or more photos and measurements of your version?
Also congrats to all builders and converters of this and similiar threads - great infos to get!!! Thank´s a lot for your engagement :grinning:
Best regards + Grüssle!
Steffen

Moin Steffen,
ich hatte mal die Ehre bei euch in Rottenburg ne mündliche Prüfung zu haben :wink: Wenn du fragen hast meld dich einfach per PM.

Sorry no more build pics or build log, but if there are more specific questions im glad to answer them :slight_smile:

Max

Hi Cala!

Sorry missed this post. Generally I’d avoid Atmel 8bit based processors on ESC’s as they can drop PWM frames with pixhawk: Arduplane 3.6 Quadplane - PIxhawk PX4 experiencing erratic motor using BLHeli/SimonK ESC (with solution)

We use the newer ESC’s with the silabs F390 processor like this: https://boltrc.com.au/index.php?id_product=127&controller=product

The newer processors don’t have the same problem, so one using that processor should be fine. I haven’t looked at larger ESC’s in a while so I can’t make a direct recommendation for a 40A. Feel free to ask again though what I think! :slight_smile:

Hi Steffen!

I’d strongly advise against putting the quad arms on the mini talon wings. At a minimum they will need to be reinforced otherwise the vibrations will likely damage them, and it will lead to poor quad control and performance as they will flex to much. Putting them across the fuselage means the lever arm is much shorter and it doesn’t load up the wings at all. There is also no benefit aerodynamically.

If you need some info on a build you can also look at this: http://mozzie.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Overview.html

Hi Jeff,
thank’s for your advice.
Needless to say that I know your excellent Mozzie documentation already :wink: Since some months I’ m reading threads and docs and … and …
The reason I’d like to mount the quad arms on the wings is that I would like to change wings and have a 'normal ’ plane. But I read also about some problems Greg had with the wing stability on his Ranger conversion.
So I will have some more thinking and reading :slight_smile:
Thank’s and a nice evening!?
Steffen

Thank´s JeffBloggs for your invaluable answer, I found this at H king that looks the same but without capacitor, (30A it´s ok for my build) but it´s running BHeli, Look´s ok? https://hobbyking.com/en_us/spider-pro-premium-30a-opto-2-6s.html

No problems, glad to help Cala.
You should be ok without a cap so long your battery cables to it aren’t too small or to long. BlHeli is also what we use, and it has the F390 processor. I think it’s just the solder version that’s why it’s unpacked. Keep it ventilated in hover if possible, and do a series of thermal tests on the ESC/Motors after 30, 60, 90 seconds of flying to see if they are getting warm.

1 Like

Hi Steffen

Not every mini talon needs to be the same. :slight_smile:

But if you want the quad components to be removable I’d do exactly that. No need to replace the wings, you can leave the same ones on if you mount the quad arms like we did on the Mozzie. There we just have a plate underneath the foam and we use two screws to mount it though the foam. I just realised these photos are actually missing from the build instructions:

This works even if you just use timber ply instead of the quad mount 3D prints btw. It’s literally two screws and pull the cables through the fuselage to take it off. This was done purposely for the competition like that, because we decided early on we’re better off replacing whole assemblies quickly if something doesn’t work, rather than trying to find the issue and fix it. As a result every part can come out in minutes.

Let us know if you have any other queries otherwise. Happy to help.

1 Like

Hey Guys :slight_smile:

i had a long talk on the phone with steffen, and i totaly agree with Jeff… dont attatch the booms on the wings! Do it the Mozzie way :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

my build is quiet old and outdated, i think this vtol talon was build even befor the ardupilot quadplane times.

good luck guys :slight_smile:

1 Like

I am in the process of using carbon miniquad arms on our Mini Talon conversion. As they will be bolted to carbon mounts it would be possible to remove them to fly as a normal plane. This would be better than wing mounts if you wanted the conversion ability. Will post photos if it works out.

Having read this thread and the fantastic Mozzie wiki (PerthUAV), I got the inspiration to try something new. As I have an unbuilt Mini Talon laying in the shop, I might as well convert it to a quadplane :slight_smile:
I have experience with both multirotors and planes using APMs and Pixhawks running ardupilot, but this will be my first quadplane

The plane is primarily meant as a test / research platform and might also be fitted with a companion computer down the road.

For the propulsion system, I have after some research landed on the components listed below (running on 4s). The idea is to have a light and powerful lifting setup that is reasonable efficient, and with a smallish prop to not to severely affect the forward flight performance (without having to deal with “aligning” of the prop). Please feel free to comment on my choices :slight_smile:

Quad motors: T-Motor F80 1900kv
Quad ESC: QP ESC ZTW Spider Pro HV 30A F390
Quad props: APC MR 7x4 2xCW+2xCCW
Fwd motor: Sunnysky 2814 1000kv
Fwd mortor ESC: HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO Brushless ESC
Fwd prop Aeronaut 10x8 w/joke

Hi Ron,

Your component selections look reasonable. So far, there is little evidence that the quad prop size affects the performance of the mini Talon’s forward flight. In other words, the definition of “reasonably efficient” is in the eye of the hobbyist. :grinning:

What do you mean about aligning the prop?

Cheers!

Thanks Greg. By aligning I mean to have the props aligned with one blade planting forward.

Ahh, I see. I’m not sure what your goals are but my videos show that the mini Talon still flies true with 3-blade props hanging out. Some day, I may try some 9" 2-blade props but I haven’t used more than 30% of my 4s 8AH pack yet and I hate to change a setup that works well when my goals are met.

If more duration is needed, the Lithium Ion cells are getting popular for extended range. You just need the equipment to solder the tabs properly.

Good luck on your MT QuadPlane!

Thanks again Greg. I might have been a bit too hung up on avoiding the lifting props spin in forward flight, as I understand you have great success with your setup. On the other hand the T-motor F80 1900kv run quite efficient on 4 cell and a 7x4 prop, with god lifting reserve for payload etc. I think this should work out fine :slight_smile:

I had most of the stuff laying around except for lifting motors and escs. These have now been ordered. I just have to clear my work bench and get the MT down from the shelf :slight_smile:

I have also ordered a Pi zero W companion computer that I will be playing with for objects tracking etc, but I guess this will be a side project, and will most likely not be installed into the MT from the start.

My goals with this MT is to get into the world of quad/VTOL planes. As I’m also qute involved in a search and rescue drone team here in northern Norway (Tromsø Red Cross RPAS team), this might be a useful tool down the road.

You should have some interesting videos flying in Norway. It reminds me of a show on Netflix I liked called, “Lilyhammer”. I still remember the '94 Olympics in Lillehammer! :grinning:

Yes we have quite a pictoriestic scenery up here with the high mountains and deep fjords :slight_smile:
The Lilyhammer Olympics and the series by the same name was also quite epic