Servers by jDrones

Mini Talon QuadPlane Conversion

(Perth UAV - Sam) #101

Sebastian the 8Ah should work well. They fit in the MT nose without modification. We use a 10Ah LiHV version, but that requires some extra foam cutting to get the battery far enough forward. The LiHV is good for another 10-15% without a weight penalty, but HK seems to be phasing the Mutilstar LiHV out atm so they’re hard to get hold of. If it weren’t for the hover current requirement low C 18650’s would work. There are some 10C 20700 cells now that are an option as well but need to be hand made to fit properly.

(Greg Covey) #102

In our second round of testing the mini Talon QuadPlane, we replaced the HQ10x5 e-prop with an Aeronaut 10x8 e-prop. I had also installed a new 12v regulator to power my video transmitter. Although the initial testing went well, when switching to CRUISE mode, there was a noticeable pulsing in the forward motor power level. The plane landed fine in QSTABILIZE mode. A quick look at the logs revealed a current oscillation in both CRUISE and FBWA modes.

My initial suspicion is the new 12v regulator powering the video tx. but I will unpower both for the next test and go back to the HQ 10x5 prop for a baseline. It may also be from my CRUISE mode settings below. I will then retest the Aeronaut 10x8 e-prop as well as an APC 10x8 e-prop.

Below you can see the red current oscillations in CRUISE mode. The green is AS sensor and the red is GPS speed.

(Greg Covey) #103

I’m not sure that my CRUISE mode settings are optimal and I am having trouble changing them in the Mission Planner “Basic Tuning” screen. Can someone please advise on how I can increase my cruise mode speed so that it doesn’t come close to the current Q_ASSIST_SPEED setting of 17?

GregsMiniTalonCruiseTest1.param (16.2 KB)

(Perth UAV - Sam) #104

Hi Greg.
I haven’t played with cruise much but it has auto throttle, so I’d raise the throttle cruise percentage to 50 or 55% and the airspeed Cruise setting up to 19m/s and try to see if that fixes the pulsing. How well does it loiter in forward flight? In flight you can also push up the speed in loiter and auto (and cruise I think) using the MP actions tab and change speed.

Note that the most efficient cruise (Carsons speed) is about 30% over best unpowered (decent rate) range. That should put it around 22m/s or higher with the MT and your MTOW. Don’t be afraid to give it some more speed, we’ve had ours over 32m/s and it’s fine provided you don’t have crazy levels of servo throw on the control surfaces.

(Greg Covey) #105

Hi Sam,

Thanks for the information. I can’t remember if I tried Loiter after the CRUISE issue. I was attempting to raise the CRUISE speed but the GUI doesn’t seem to let you do it. There may be an order to what gets increased first or just a bug in the GUI. I’ll see if I can find the CRUISE parameters in the Full Parameter List.

The CRUISE Mode definition appears to be tied to the FBWB Mode. It looks like the ARSPD_FBW_MIN and ARSPD_FBW_MAX are the parameters to set so I’ll try again.

(Greg Covey) #106

So I can change the FBW min and max settings to 18 and 32 respectively but the GUI does not allow me to change the Cruise airspeed nor can I find an associated parameter in the Full Parameter List.

(Rolf) #107

Change TRIM_ARSPD_CM :smiley:

(Greg Covey) #108

Awesome! Thanks, Rolf! I was hoping that there was a way around the GUI bug.

(Greg Covey) #109

For some reason, I can no longer edit my first post for parts links so I’ll add it here.

A secondary source for Sunnysky 2216 motors.

Sunnysky New V2216 KV650 KV800 KV900 Brushless Motors - Banggood $22.

(rollys) #110

Buddy RC has a bunch of SunnySky X-Series on sale and they’re US based.

(Greg Covey) #111

They are my primary SunnySky vendor for the mini Talon conversion in post 1. Banggood is another good source.

(Greg Covey) #112

I tested the mini Talon QP with the APC 10x8 e-prop. As expected, it performed better than the HK 10x5 prop due to improved pitch speed. The video was cut short due to the camera battery being depleted. I also dropped the Q_ASSIST_SPEED to 16m/s. The VTOL capability allows me to fly from our small clearing over the hazards to the large wild field. It is so nice to be able to fly just down the street!

I also discovered the reason for the pulsing issue which plagued me over several flights. The forward flight ESC was getting too hot and doing a thermal cutback. It was an inexpensive ZTW Beatles 40A ESC that I pulled from the stock CL-84 before using SimonK ESCs. My plan is to replace it with a higher rated ESC and improve air flow through the MT. I like having the ESCs inside the fuselage so I can fly this winter without fear of moisture from snow damaging them.

(Marc Dornan) #113

For what it is worth I designed a simple 3D part to allow the ESC on my MT to be outside the plane on the bottom so that it is getting good airflow. I also use a capacitor bank that sits on top of the this part inside the fuselage with a little bracket that holds the capacitors.

(Greg Covey) #114

Hi Marc,

Neat! It looks like a 90 degree version of the other Mark’s ( battery hatch where the openings are on the sides for a Velcro strap. I just had one of those made because I don’t want to rely solely on jamming the Multistar 4s 8AH pack in the nose. I love all the 3D parts available for this plane.

I can already see my MT sitting on hard-packed snow this winter so I’ll keep my ESCs inside. I usually plug up my air holes as well.


(Marc Dornan) #115

I did something more elaborate that that for the battery. A CF plate with
3D printed clips for the battery so it is all internal. Not sure if it was
worth the effort but it is nice.

I am making a second MT and I will try to make this much lighter and see of
it is worth adding the extra weight with some of these parts I have put in
(also quite a few more that I designed!).

I have not thrown any of this on the thread in RCGroups until I think my
efforts are worth replicating.

(Greg Covey) #116

I tested my new Turnigy AE-80A Brushless ESC with another take-off in the wild surrounded by hazards. A QuadPlane VTOL makes it possible to fly from small clearings. The flight was great with no motor pulsing in either FBWA or CRUISE modes using an APC 10x8 e-prop.

During the flight, we had a close encounter on the ground with a full size male hawk! He gave his approval that my testing phase has completed successfully!

(cala2) #117

Nice Greg, bird needs 4 quad motors Lol

(Perth UAV - Sam) #118

Nice Talon! :smile:

I’m a bit surprised the old ESC was thermalling out. I suppose it depends on how much it draws in cruise as well, but even at 15A or so I’d have thought it wouldn’t thermal cutout. Some ESC’s can be inefficient as well if there’s no proper QC on them. It only takes one under spec FET to cause it. I remember the first prototype we made of the MT QP (which is in our D2 Video as well) that only had 5x those dinky little 4g 20A esc’s…surprisingly it all worked for about 4-5 flights, but then their 20AWG cables started melting through the fuselage :slight_smile:

(cala2) #119

Jeff, I´m now trying to find new esc for my VTOL project for unsync issues, do you have references about this ones? , Thank´s.

(Steffen Döring) #120

Hi to all!
Got my Mini Talon Kit today.
Now I will also start to build a Quadplane in your “aamadeuss” style with the quadrotors on the wings.
Do you have a little build log or more photos and measurements of your version?
Also congrats to all builders and converters of this and similiar threads - great infos to get!!! Thank´s a lot for your engagement :grinning:
Best regards + Grüssle!