Controversy --- does the AT (v1.1) project work

AntennaTracker
14

Hi Frankie,

You are definitely having some odd problems that I have not seen before.

For my first Tracker, I essentially copied Randy’s project which is described in the WiKi. It was built several years ago and is detailed here. We all use the EZTracker which was sold from ReadyMadeRC at the time. I recently updated the Pixhawk firmware to v1.1 because it had the fix for the Battery Monitor…which I had been waiting years for and was very happy to use it. It still works great using the SITL vehicle connection from Mission Planner. Our flying season hasn’t started yet so my plan is to test it more this summer.

My second tracker was a quick build designed to be a smaller table top version using the inexpensive LOBOT 2DOF PTZ parts and servos along with some smaller components. It was essentially the same type of tracker as my first one where the pitch ranged from 0 to 90 degrees and the yaw was 180 degrees. This limitation is designed around a typical AMA flying field where we never fly behind ourselves.

My point here is that I can only confirm that my one type of tracker works. It might be a good test for you to initially try the same setup and see if you have some success. For the testing, you can simply remove your yagi antenna and stick with initially just testing the tracker. Use a servo tester or receiver to validate the servo positions against the SERVOx_MIN and SERVOx_MAX settings. Depending upon the servo used, the PID settings may need to change from the default settings below.

Good luck on your future testing!

SERVO1_FUNCTION,71
SERVO1_MAX,2200
SERVO1_MIN,900
SERVO1_REVERSED,1
SERVO1_TRIM,1500

SERVO2_FUNCTION,72
SERVO2_MAX,1000
SERVO2_MIN,1900
SERVO2_REVERSED,0
SERVO2_TRIM,1500

YAW_RANGE,180
YAW_SLEW_TIME,2
YAW_TRIM,0
YAW2SRV_D,0.05
YAW2SRV_FF,0.02
YAW2SRV_FLTD,0
YAW2SRV_FLTE,0
YAW2SRV_FLTT,0
YAW2SRV_I,0
YAW2SRV_IMAX,4000
YAW2SRV_P,0.2

PITCH_MAX,90
PITCH_MIN,0
PITCH_SLEW_TIME,2
PITCH_TRIM,0
PITCH2SRV_D,0.05
PITCH2SRV_FF,0.02
PITCH2SRV_FLTD,0
PITCH2SRV_FLTE,0
PITCH2SRV_FLTT,0
PITCH2SRV_I,0
PITCH2SRV_IMAX,4000
PITCH2SRV_P,0.2

15

Hi Greg,

Really appreciate your continued support on my AT project. With your assistance, I am determined to make it work since I have been spending over 2 years.

Yes, yagi has been removed sometime ago.

I am changing the values according to your suggestion in the full param list and use a trial and error approach. Initially it does not work. Wll be holding 1 param value fixed, and changing the others one by one, including the servo type.

Your AT0.80 indicated you chose POSITION for both servos. Some people in the forum suggest yaw servo has to be set as CONTINUOUS, and pitch servo as POSITION, and they said it works. I am confused. What is your opinion ? Can you also give details of the servos you use,

including any modification to continuous rotation, if any ? I modified my pitch servo to rotate 135 deg.

Meanwhile, did you try before simulate landing the vehicle in SITL, so as to test pitching of the tracker ? Do you think this is a good way ?

From your experience, if the tracker has reached its preset yaw range limit, will it yaw in opposite direction ? That is the hehaviour of my tracker in SITL.

The video of your first tracker shows you are also using the Eagle Tree tracker sold by Ready Made RC, same as mine.

When your vehicle is on the ground, after power up everything and safety button pressed, does the tracker and thus the

controller turn to vertical position, accomodated by AHRS Orientation: 24 ?

Other than the yawing behaviour which works from default values, i am satisfied with yawing, and I now focus mainly on the pitching of the tracker. I have changed the values of ALL relevant param without success.

Will let you know the result in few days after I finish all the trials.

Thank you.

Frankie

16

Set the AHRS orientation so the HUD moves as a copter would with the ‘pointing’ direction. And set the servo types to the types of servo you have. I would suggest setting the pitch P and D gains to zero. You can then just use the I gain to very slowly move in the correct direction tracking a static or very slow moving thing initially. You can then use the GCS_PID mask to work out the gains. If this is not working post vids and logs and I will see if I can work out what to do.

17

Frankie,

I would follow Pete’s instructions. Also, when you post the .bin log, please post an image of the current setup.

Yes. Also use the on-board compass.

Yes, I found it best to use SITL in two ways. Put the plane or VTOL in Loiter mode in a large circle so that it goes just on top of the tracker. In this manner, the tracker is tested in both yaw and pitch modes. I also use the Guided Mode feature to fly the plane across the tracker path. See Rolf’s post #4 in my mini Tracker thread.

For my trackers with limited pitch (90 degrees) and yaw (180 degrees), I use Position servo settings.

18

Hi Pete,

Thank you for your opinion. For the orientation, all the time(except just recently, I changed AHRS Orientation to 24),

I mount the controller pointing forward, and the HUD responds as the copter would (controller pitching up, HUD moves to

more blue, less green, and vice versa), and AHRS orientation is set to 0 (none).

As I have no background in programming, I will google the meaning of masking and bit masking to try the GCS_PID mask param.

Will try all your other suggestions and let you know.

Thank you.

19

Hi Pete and Greg,

Testing on the tracker has to stop as I run into problem with SITL software that after launching, the quad appears in Australia in MP map with “green tear drop” next to it. And the quad would not move after I arm it and takeoff, as I live in Vancouver, Canada where I set home.

I have tried many different ways to make it work again, but no luck.

What is the best category to post the SITL related question (I have more details) in the forum ?

20

I saw that happen too. I figured it was Tridge’s house. :wink:

Simply drag the quad back to where you live and set home again.

Cheers!

21

HI Greg, Pete,

Good news. After I managed to set the tracker “Home” and continued more testing, the tracker started to pitch

when I put the quad in “Circle” mode in SITL. Pls find attached the param values of my setting which works.

Greg, some questions on SITL. You once suggested me to put the vehicle in LOITER mode in a large circle to test both yaw and pitch.

  1. Could you tell me how to do this in MP ?

  2. Also when I put the quad in CIRCLE mode, it only circles 2 times and then crashes and disarm. Why ?

  3. When I land the vehicle, the altitude decreases. Why did the tracker not pitch ?

  4. When I disconnected the GPS from the tracker, the tracker also yaws. What role does the GPS play ?

There are more tuning to do. Will do field testing later as weather permits.

Thanks for all your and Pete’s help so far.

Frankie

Param__pitching works.param (8.45 KB)

22

The trick came from Rolf in post #4 of my mini AAT thread here. You use a quadplane in SITL and load a simple 3 step mission to get started. Simply set AUTO mode and ARM, then use the GUIDED mode Fly to Here with a right mouse click. The QP will loiter at the WP or you can set LOITER mode and change the radius as shown below.

I’m not sure about your other questions…

SITL1
SITL11282×721 278 KB

SITL2
SITL21282×721 247 KB

23

Hi Pete,

In my last message to you and Greg, I told the good news that my tracker started to pitch, but further testing shows

the tracker pitches back and forth, as shown in the video with link below.

You asked the log in earlier message. I don’t have the log available as I found out the SD card slot of my tracker controller
(Pixhack, same as Pixhawk)
is probably damaged, and I can’t insert the card. I will figure out what to do to get the log for analysis.

I resend the param file of my current setting to see if you can figure out why the tracker pitches back and forth.

Another point which puzzles me : 10 seconds after start of the video, the tracker sudden beeps, and the green LED turns from solid to blinking, meaning disarmed.
Even though it disarm, the tracker still pitches and yaws.
This disarming started to happen 2 days ago. I swear I did not change any param value. It just happened by itself, and is repeating everytime several seconds after I press the safety switch to arm.

But wiki says "
Flashing green: Disarmed (ready to arm), GPS lock acquired. Quick
double tone when disarming from the armed state."

And if you turn on the loudspeaker, you only hear one short beep at 10 second, instead of “Quick double tone”. Do you have any clue ?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19QocGca6jTSlhjPJb5kKM_YlzW1yUDef/view?usp=sharing

Greg, thank you for advice on putting the QP in loiter mode. One point I am curious, does disconnecting the GPS from the tracker disable

the tracker ? Also does it make any difference to tracking with GPS 3D fix and without 3D fix ? It seems the tracker still moves even I disconnect the GPS from tracker.

Thank you for your help.

Frankie

Param__pitching works.param (8.45 KB)

24

The telemetry lost and found sounds used to be these. I can’t remember if this has changed.

  • Telemetry Lost = 1 short beep (like your video)
  • Telemetry Found = 1 long beep

I would expect it to disable the tracker but it may be an untested corner case.

Again, I would expect the tracker to stop or go into scan mode. It’s probably another untested use case.

25

Thank you Greg.

In the video of your
first tracker, where did you buy the white rectangular patch antenna
mounted on the other side of the controller ? Could you give me the
details? My DIY yagi is not portable compared to yours.

Since you have
experience building 2 trackers, did you encounter violent twisting
(yawing left to right, and right to left quickly and in small
angle) as soon as the safety switch is pressed ? This annoys me very
much and happens 5-6 out of 10 times, and I have to unplug the power
immediately to stop it. Could it be due to certain direction I fly
the vehicle in guided mode relative to the heading of the tracker, or
reflection of radio wave indoor ? Pls share your experience.

In your last reply,
what is the meaning of “untested corner case” ?

I put the tracker on a
tripod just 1 meter away from the laptop which runs SITL. The minimum
distance I set to track is 4 meter. Is this setting irrelevant while
running SITL ?

There is no quadplane
in 'Simulation” page. Do you mean multitotor which I have been
using all the time for SITL testing ?

Still figuring out why the tracker disarm shortly after arming and safety switch pressed. Disarming is followed by the green LED of telemetry radio starts blinking (solid green means radio link established). Any clue ?

Thank you,.

26

Both of my AATs use the ImmersionRC (IRC) SpiroNET 5.8GHz 13dbi LZR Patch Antenna. It is sold in many places and has come way down over the years so I picked one up at ReadyMadeRC.com in the U.S. for $25. Just do a Google search for it.

This may be due to your YAW_RANGE setting. Mine is set to 180 since I will never fly behind myself…only 1/2 of a circle or 180 degrees.

The minimum distance to track is from the AAT GPS position and vehicle GPS position, not the laptop location. A setting of 4m is too close for real operation. Use the default 15m or longer. I use a dual receiver so that the omni-directional antenna can be used if the directional patch antenna is in error when the plane is too close and travels across the field to fast. This can occur on a normal AMA flying field.

Select “quadplane” in the Model pull-down menu. See the image below.

QuadplaneSimulation1
QuadplaneSimulation11282×721 257 KB

Use the settings below on the SiK radios. Ignore frequency boxes if you are using 915MHz.

SiK_GroundRadio1
SiK_GroundRadio11154×721 106 KB

27

Hi Greg,

Thank you for your continued support.

Before solving one problem, another problem appears…that the telem radio link dropped continuously everytime

during testing. I have changed to your setting on the telem radio and tried, but did not fix the problem. In fact, my original setting was working perfect consistently before this happened.

I just posted this problem in greater details in a new thread in Antenna Tracker, hoping someone with similar problem can share the experience.

28

Frankie,

I would make sure that both air and ground modules have the same settings and are not too close together. If they still do not work properly, swap out the module, one at a time, with a different set, if you have one.

On both my AATs, I use 915MHz for the vehicle telemetry link and 433MHz telemetry for the GCS telemetry link. This dual-band operation seems to work well.

AntennaTracker_ConnectToGCS_Radio
AntennaTracker_ConnectToGCS_Radio1365×578 80.8 KB

29

Hi Greg,

During SITL testing, I only use 1 pair telem module…one connected to the tracker controller (Pixhack),

the other to the laptop. So interference is not a problem. Though I have another pair (set to different Net ID),

for simplicity in SITL testing, they will only be used during field testing for vehicle telemetry. Both pair are 915Mhz

which the local regulation requires.

I have swapped another pair, also in SITL mode, but still did not fix the trouble.

The telem link drops out when 1 pair is used in SITL. This pair has exactly the same setting on each module,

otherwise it would not have worked for couple of months without link drop out until recently. I would try using

vehicle telem next time when I am out at the field.

Thank you.

30

Hi Greg,

I finally solved the problem of telemetry dropping. The reason of dropping is on the power supply to the Pixhack FC. To power the 2 servos, I have 5 V connected to the output of the FC. This also powers the FC, so I do not provide separate power for the FC. As soon as the tracker starts to track, more often than not, the telemetry drops. I now provide another 5V to the FC and no more telem dropping. Now I can continue with field testing later.

One question :-- The tracker starts to track even though the GPS on the tracker is not 3d fixed (blinking green light). I thought the tracker has to know what coordinates it is located, and track according to the position of air borne vehicle based on the difference in the coordinates between the vehicle and the tracker location. Seems this is not the case if it starts to tracke before 3d fix.
What is your opinion ? Thanks
Frankie

31

Hi Greg,

I finally get the tracker working, at least it tracks the vehicle, but not accurately. It lags in position in both pitching and yawing. See my latest thread posted yesterday with heading “Tracker lags in psotion in both pitching and yawing”

Could you share your experience to trouble shoot this problem ?

Thanks very much.

32

Maybe I can help a bit. I’m using the AT for many years already, without a problem. But we also had our startup issues.

First of all, check your PID settings. By finding the right settings, the AT becomes quite crisp.

Secondly, it depends on how far off the lag is. Mine is always a few degrees wrong, but I don’t care too much. The antenna itself has a 3db opening angle of about 10 degrees, so a few degrees to the left or right, or up or down, don’t worry me.

We can reach 25km on a 2.4ghz, 1 Watt transceiver. On the AT we have a flat panel antenna with 13db gain and on the aircraft a simple dipole with 5 dB gain.

Of course line of sight.

1 Like
33

Thank you. I have tried using other people’s successful PID, and I know these are for reference only.

Every installation may be different.However, they don’t work, in fact, getting even worse.

I will try other PID settings, by trial and error.