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Mini Talon QuadPlane Conversion


(Josh Slager) #221

Hover test 4.

I swaped out quad power to CObra 2210-2200kv motors with 6x4.5 Master airscrew props. THis combo gave some really good numbers on ECALC and it had plenty of power to get off the ground.

I did a 2 minute hover test and the motors/escs came down only slightly warm. However, It kept wanting to yaw. I had to spend the entire time fighting the yaw. the Lipo came down quite hot. May be a bad batt.

I did pull the log and it hovered right around 60%

Any ideas on the yaw? I am set to H frame.


(Greg Covey) #222

Josh,

How many compasses are you using and where is your external compass mounted?


(Josh Slager) #223

Hey Greg. I am using 2 compasses, the external is about 1/4 of the way out on the left wing.


(Greg Covey) #224

Try using just the external compass. Also, try re-calibrating the radio sticks in MP. Maybe you can post the log.

Lastly, there is a good section in the Wiki called Yaw Controller Tuning. The YAW2SRV_RLL parameter is likely the one you want change.

Good luck!


(Josh Slager) #225

I set only one compass and recalibrated my sticks… also going to try a different battery setup tomorrow… Thank you as always, Greg


(Josh Slager) #226

The random yawing seems to have been resolved, but I am still getting some yaw on throttle up. That may be a tuning issue though.

The new battery seems to be helping as well… I was hovering around 40% this time. However I was getting some odd “pulsing” during the hover and the right front and back motors came down pretty hot. I tried looking at the logs but I’m not that great with them yet.

Anyone else want to take a look?

Thanks guys

EDIT: I’m running BLHS on 45a escs.


(Josh Slager) #227

I have a feeling the BLHeli_S escs may be the culprit… GOing to pick up some BLH escs so i can turn on PWM output.


(Juan Felipe Villegas Echeverri) #228

Hi Greg

Im trying to build a quadplane with a mini talon but there´s something that does not make sense to me.
The order of your ESCs is not the same as the order of the documentation.

Could you please let me know your opinion?

Thanks


(Sebastian Schürmann) #229

My Mini-Talon was uncontrollable in yaw when I configured it as X, because the flex in the arms would cancel out the torque.
It flies fine configured as a H-copter.


(Greg Covey) #230

Hi Juan,

The documentation refers to the physical connection on the Pixhawk Main Outputs. On a QuadPlane,

The motor order and output channel is the same as for copter (see Copter motor layout) except that the output channel numbers start at 5 instead of 1.

For example, with the default Quad-X frame the motors are on outputs 5 to 8. The arrangement is:

 Channel 5: Front right motor, counter-clockwise
 Channel 6: Rear left motor, counter-clockwise
 Channel 7: Front left motor, clockwise
 Channel 8: Rear right motor, clockwise

Refer to the QuadPlane Frame setup section of the Wiki for more information.

On the mini Talon QuadPlane setup, we are using H-frame based on the Mozzie.

The MTQP arrangement is:

Channel 5: Front right motor, clockwise
Channel 6: Rear left motor, clockwise
Channel 7: Front left motor, counter-clockwise
Channel 8: Rear right motor, counter-clockwise

Don’t forget to set these paramaters as well.
Q_FRAME_CLASS,1 (for Quad)
Q_FRAME_TYPE,3 (for H)

Happy New Year!


(Zone FPV) #231

Thanks Greg, Jeff and all in this thread for your insight and ideas.

In mid-2017, I built a MiniTalon Quadplane, but didn’t have much luck getting it to transition from FBWA back to QHOV or QSTAB. In that build, the plane had wing-mounted motors. I think the wing twisted when the motors started in flight, which resulted in the plane flipping during transitions. Even so, transitions from QHOV to FBWA mode worked really well.

Inspired by this thread and the Mozzie build, I rebuilt the plane using fuselage-mounted motors. The plane has now flown several successful flights.

Here is a link to a recent video.


(Greg Covey) #232

Very nice! Thanks for reporting your findings and solution. Your wooded flying area is a great reason to use a VTOL!

Perhaps you can post any differences in your power system setup from the Mozzie. It looks like you are using the Mozzie orange boom mounts but have a different quad motor mount and also pointed the the rear motors down.

Cheers!


(Zone FPV) #233

A key aim of the build was to use recycled components from other projects to keep the cost low, but it ended up including some pretty expensive racing quad motors! Initially, the only purchases that were made specifically for the project were two carbon tubes, some mounting hardware, and the fuselage - I had a spare set of wings from a crashed MT.

The wing mounted arms, before the tubes were cut to length.

After finding there was too much twist in the wing to mount the quad-arms there, I attempted to mount some recycled flat-carbon 450-sized quad arms using the Mozzie components. Those carbon arms turned out to be too flexible, and I didn’t pursue that design.

Next, I designed some simple 3D parts that would fix the carbon tubes to the fuselage. The placement isn’t perfect in terms of CG, but it works. The front arm should really be a few cm forward of where it is to balance better. The rear mounted plate is tapered to account for the shape of the MT fuse.

Fuselage mounted arms with 1 degree of forward tilt.

The frame-type is set to H-quad, which works well. You noticed the rear motors are pointed down, this decision was made to ensure that there is adequate clearance between the propeller and the trailing edge of the wing. With the motor mounted upright, there is enough clearance for a 5 inch prop. However, I may try larger props (or swap the motors to a lower kv) so the downward facing mount will ensure there is enough clearance for a 6 inch prop.

Rear quad arm mounts, GPS, and vent.

Having mounted the rear motors facing downwards, it was necessary to add a little extra stability to avoid a prop strike, so I printed some wing skids.

Wing skids.

After the initial problems experienced with the quad arms mounted on the wings (which used 2212 motors and 9 inch props), I decided mini-quad motors with high power output and smaller props were the way to go - my miniquad will have to wait for motors…

The power system is configured as follows:
Main propulsion:
2814/16 1035kv
Afro 30amp ESC
APC 12x6 prop

Quad propulsion:
2207 2750kv
Generic 40amp ESCs
3-Blade 5x4.5x3

Hardware:
Motor mounts
Tube clamps

Power:
2750mAh 4S2P for 5500mAh (these packs are really old need to be replaced in time)

My general observations on the project are that it now needs an autotune in plane mode. The quad tuning seems to be pretty good. Even so, the quad motors are running a little hot, and I’ll next try moving down to 2-blade props.

Here’s some video from yesterday, including inflight video from a friend’s quad. It was pretty windy, but the quadplane handled the conditions well.


(Greg Covey) #234

Very well done! Thanks for the links, I haven’t seen that motor mount before. I agree those MT motors are expensive but they probably don’t care about the heat.

What are you using for OSD and video downlink?

Cheers!


(Zone FPV) #235

The video downlink is a TS5823 and the OSD is a Microminim. The Microminim is running v8## firmware, which is probably overdue for an upgrade, but it works.

The camera is a Runcam Eagle 16:9.

Cheers!


(cala2) #236

137 mins with mozzie??? :astonished: Or Im not understand? You have enougth space for batteries? I love endurance and little builds but not always a compatible thing :wink: but Mozzie looks the case. :smile:


(ronsand) #237

There has been several delays due to other projects an obligations, but I am now getting close to the maiden with my my MT quadplane. As said before I have experience with both arducopter and pure arduplane, but this is my first quadplane :grinning:

I wonder how you guys have organiced the flight modes on the radio (what switces and how they are configured)? Also what flight modes are you using?

I also guess it is an idea to start out with a limited number of modes for the first flights, until I get familiar with the craft and having it tuned better?


(Greg Covey) #238

Hi Ron,

I use a Taranis X9D+ so my 6 flight modes are on the 6-position rotary knob on top of the radio. For my QuadPlanes, I used the order below. The biggest change to remember when flying a QuadPlane versus an APM plane is that your emergency bailout mode is QSTABILIZE instead of Manual. It is also good that you are familiar with copters.

The main thing I miss from Copter that is not in Plane is being able to select a separate bailout switch. I usually use this for RTL on copters but it would be nice to also use it for emergency bailout on planes.

When first starting out, I test more Copter modes like QSTABILIZE, QHOVER, and QLOITER. Once happy with the hovering performance, I then switch to the sequence below which I have Amber sound audibles for and a laminated card taped on the transmitter. If things go wrong, I turn my flight mode switch all the way clockwise for Flight Mode 1.

Good luck!

APM_FlightModes2


(ronsand) #239

Thanks a lot for your answer. Your mode setup seems nice and is quite close to what have set up alreay. I also really miss that you don’t have the 7nt mode for RTH as in copter. I have never gotten around to install the rotary knob on my Taranis and I am not to sure it suits me (I have one somewhere in a drawer). I will stick with the switches for now :grinning:

We have a snow storm going on now, but when the wheater eases up I should be ready for the maiden :grin:


(cala2) #240

+3 about miss separate switch in planes.