Dual-motor tailsitters

Thanks but too late now.
@iampete
@losawing Your info was correct, QLOITER in a vectored Tailsitter does not work with FW 4.2.1.
First a message EKF3. lane switch 1, then starts to shake and final loose control.
Was not to hold with switching back to QHOVER. And not high enoughe to save with Plane Mode.
Video: https://youtu.be/szaH8CMBIVU
Log: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11IJQe9AOzNYETziU5WCY8x5S3sjofxMb/view?usp=sharing

May be, someone find the bug, but for the wing it was the final crash. (7.8 g)

hello where can I get this motor support stil files. thank you

@lorbass
sorry for the crash, this is a bad one.
For this flight, you set q_a_rat_pit_ff to a non zero value (like I do) and the the instability is more bad.
Something I had observed in my log an offset of tilt motors that come right after the lane switch (or the yaw reset). But I don’t see a such offset in your log. Nevertheless I am wondering if the pit_ff is effective or not depending on some circumstances ?
@iampete @hwurzburg @kd0aij is that possible ?

Your images looks like a non vectored Tailsitter.
My Caipirinha didn’t work, even with Elevons 20% larger than in the original.
When reducing Trust e.g. to lower the altitude, it became uncontrollable.
I changed to a vectored Tailsitter after Test 3.

Hi Everybody,
In the last week-end, I just finished a big step of my last project → Convert a Calssic Ritewing Dark Wing to a VTOL model, make some tests and proceed to maiden of the new Tailsitter TVBS (Twin motor Vectored Belly Sitter )

The final tuning it’s not finished, but, the result it’s not bad :slight_smile:

If possible, I need some help for fine tune the PID for each axis + translations


FW : ArduPlane V4.3.0dev
Log : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d00mGlT3-Xw9LiPl4n_MmhLNJ_-YAhqn/view?usp=sharing

Thanks to all the contributors

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Looks very nice! congratulations!

For tuning, you should take a look at [new tailsitter tuning wiki] (Tailsitter VTOL Tuning — Plane documentation) if not yet. Also new quick VTOL tune lua script is nice, will tune tailsitter well. Since you have H743 FC, you should be able to run that Lua script ok. It works ok for me on SITL SIM, about to try on real one.
I would tune FF manually following the wiki page, then run quick tune to finish. I read the LUA script will not update FF value if not zero.

Great Video and Flight performance. :+1:
I would say, perfect Transitions.

pay attention with Mode QLOITER. No recommendation so far how not to crash.

Hi and Big Thanks for yours support :slight_smile:
@Satoru_Sasaki : I try as possible, the Lua script method / VTOL QuickTune.
@lorbass : Sorry, don’t understand the danger with the Mode Qloiter, please , possible to precise more ?
Best Regrds

To avoid this.
It was the second and last time I tested QLOITER.
Stabilize, QHOVER,Cruise,FBWA/B,LOITER,Transitions all perfect.

Reported some postes above.

, , , pfff :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: ,

I just proced to read the history,

I also crach a model when I strart with the “stable” branch version (but not "stable"for tailsitter),

I’m sorry , , ,

I think, maybe it’s bether to generate a macro who it’s possible to insert all the phisiqal values for a Dual-motor tailsitters like :

  • version of the firmware :
  • size of the props :
  • sourface of the elevons :
  • TVBS : yes/no
  • method of the Q_TAILSIT_GSCMSK :

and the low limits are generated automaticly for all the “complex” settings, before start a “Auto tune sequency”

Exemple fo the value can be output automaticly :

Q_TAILSIT_GSCMSK
Q_TAILSIT_DSKLD
Q_M_THST_EXPO
Q_A_ACCEL_R_MAX
Q_TAILSIT_VHGAIN
Q_TAILSIT_VFGAIN
MIXING_GAIN
Q_M_SPIN_ARM
Q_A_RAT_RLL_FLTD
Q_A_RAT_RLL_FLTE
Q_A_RAT_RLL_FLTT
Q_A_RAT_RLL_FF
Q_A_RAT_RLL_P
Q_A_RAT_RLL_I
Q_A_RAT_RLL_D
Q_A_RAT_PIT_P
Q_A_RAT_PIT_I
Q_A_RAT_PIT_D
Q_A_RAT_YAW_P
Q_A_RAT_YAW_I
Q_A_RAT_YAW_D
Q_A_ANG_RLL_P
Q_A_ANG_PIT_P
Q_A_ANG_YAW_P
Q_A_RAT_RLL_IMAX
Q_A_RAT_RLL_SMAX
Q_A_RAT_PIT_FF
Q_A_RATE_P_MAX
Q_ACRO_RLL_RATE
.
.
.
.

Thanks

A good idea.
I did it on another methode:

  • Start to build at the beginning of the thread after the call of Tridge with some Params he wrote.
  • To collect all hints and recommendation of the Dev’s in the Thread
  • To read the Wiki which was mostly behind me
    -To search in all the verry short explication in the Parameter List Full.
  • Trial and error or crash in reality (not Sim)

Can’t recommend this for Newbies, not verry motivating :wink:

Did you create a PR on Ardupilot’s GitHub of this thing?

yes, still awaiting review by Leonard:

Flight tested by @losawing Dual-motor tailsitters - #2496 by losawing
More flight testing would be appreciated.

1 Like

no log file attached…may have to laod it on a file hosting site like Google Drive or DropBox

if the plane fixed wing CG is okay, having those components forward should not matter…your vtol thrust is forward of the CG…once a log is available, we can also check to see if the compass has issues…

but LOITER is a different control loop than HOVER or STAB …its an outer loop around the rate loops used for basic VTOL stability…those inner loops must be tuned first and stable first…and then you can work on LOITER…

okay, it obviously has not been tuned…follow this guide:QuadPlane VTOL Tuning — Plane documentation

from the logs the q_a_rat_ptch_ff should be 0.4 the q_a_rat_yaw_ff should be 0.3 and the roll P gain q_a_rat_rll_p could be increased to 0.3…this should give you the starting point…follow the guide…set the notch filters…then tune the pitch, roll, and yaw axes in QSTABILIZE…then check the QHOVER…when those are solid…you can move to QLOITER…most likely for a vectored tailisitter the q_a_accel_p_max will be too high for the pitch axis…if it wobbles in pitch while in QLOITER (only after you have rock solid in QSTAB/QHOVER) try lowering it by half…

Thank you very much for your analysis
I will continue to adjust the aircraft according to the method you gave

hello, can I ask is this motor tilt set from your own design or it can be download somethere? thank you

thank you. it looks holding strong. is it possible to ask you if I can get your modificated files?

thank you. I have downloaded them. what about the servo mount and motor mount. How did you do with them? are they not 3d printed?

Those are sheet metal pieces that I bought at my local store, bent from flat metal pieces