Is the Sky Viper Journey SE copter/transmitter pair user upgradeable to Ardupilot?

Yes, excellent that at least we know and can return them.

Itā€™s good that at least we have spare parts.

Amazon still hasnā€™t shipped a replacement.

But Iā€™ve finally got my paws on an ArduCopter Journey and compared it to the SE I havenā€™t yet returned.

What Iā€™ve learned:

  1. The Journey SKYVIPER hotspot on the 2.4G band with the last 3 bytes of the MAC address portion of the ssid is displayed in hexadecimal vs the Journey SE which is on the 5.8G band and the mac address is displayed as decimal. This, I think, makes things easier for customer support. But, also, the switch to 5.8G may have solved some video performance issues?

  2. SKYVIPER AP is at 192.168.99.1 on Journey and 192.168.80.1 on SE.

  3. There is no website access on SE at 192.168.80.1 on port 80 or 8080

  4. The open port scan on both units shows a very different profile

SkyViper SE (without ArduPilot)


SkyViper Journey (with ArduPilot)


  1. The Journey is able to get a GPS fix consistently and rapidly on the floor of my livingroom. The SE was unable to lock GPS indoors no matter how long I waited. So I checked it outside and the SE was still unable to lock. Not sure why.

  2. The Journey SE seems to be a US only product as I watched it move from Kent, WA to here in Canada, it has no mandatory French language on the packaging and the SE app retrieved by scanning the barcode says it is not available in my area. So not usable out of the box for me.

  3. You can tell the Journey SE from the Journey by looking at the transmitter model number. I left the quad itself connected to the packaging so I couldnā€™t look underneath. Or take it apart. The FCC # is 24G on both so the telemetry is of course still 2.4G but the video/phone app hotspot is now 5.8G only, it seems. Nonetheless, the SE TX refuses to pair with the original Journey and vice-versa which would also be the case if both were the same model, so no new info there.

Journey SE

Journey

Some of the yellowing I mentioned above. Journey on top, SE underneath.

Anyway, the hardware is obviously different at least one way (video/app radio frequency band) so it is not so simple, although the SE platform may well deserve a port? What I would say is that the original unit is imo a great value and anything the community can do to stop them being land-filled one by one by the uninformed may be worthwhile.

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Thank you for the detailed comparison.
Original Journey also listens on ports 2017 thru 2022. It would be best if you could do a full port scan with nmap -O -sV to give some hints about which services are listening there and which OS.
Maybe thereā€™s still an ArduPilot there but the Sonix board was surely replaced based on your findings.
You could try launching wireshark to sniff WiFi packets between the app and the SE. It might be using MAVlink.

Yes, as I just read through I realised that tool had only scanned the well known ports. I also wondered why I wasnā€™t using nmap and whether I should go deeper with wireshark. Iā€™m new to RC and still on the steep part of the learning curve. Thanks for the reply. Iā€™ll have a look.

Okay, I did all this stuff weeks ago and was just repeating the final steps and now I remember why I didnā€™t use nmap and wireshark. This windows box only has 2.4G wifi. So I discovered that the SE was on 5.8G because it didnā€™t show up here. And thatā€™s why I went to the android app. Didnā€™t think of the pi. Thanks for prodding me lol. Iā€™ll spend some time with wireshark when I get a chance. Hereā€™s what nmap running off of a pi4 outputs.

$ sudo nmap -O -sV 192.168.80.1
Starting Nmap 7.70 ( https://nmap.org ) at 2022-01-12 15:50 MST
Nmap scan report for 192.168.80.1
Host is up (0.0023s latency).
Not shown: 995 closed ports
PORT STATE SERVICE VERSION
21/tcp open ftp Stupid-FTPd
554/tcp open rtsp Sanyo VCC-HD2300 webcam rtspd
3333/tcp open dec-notes?
5001/tcp open commplex-link?
8080/tcp open http-proxy
2 services unrecognized despite returning data. If you know the service/version, please submit the following fingerprints at Nmap Fingerprint Submitter 2.0 :
==============NEXT SERVICE FINGERPRINT (SUBMIT INDIVIDUALLY)==============
SF-Port5001-TCP:V=7.70%I=7%D=1/12%Time=61DF5B49%P=arm-unknown-linux-gnueab
SF:ihf%r(WMSRequest,1,ā€œ\tā€);
==============NEXT SERVICE FINGERPRINT (SUBMIT INDIVIDUALLY)==============
SF-Port8080-TCP:V=7.70%I=7%D=1/12%Time=61DF5B49%P=arm-unknown-linux-gnueab
SF:ihf%r(GetRequest,24,ā€œError\x20unexpected\x20end\x20of\x20transmissionā€)
SF:%r(HTTPOptions,195,ā€œHTTP/1.1\x20400\x20Bad\x20Request\r\nContent-type:
SF:\x20text/html\r\nConnection:\x20close\r\n\r\nBad\x20Reques
SF:t

Your\x20browser\x20sent\x20a\x20bad\x20request

</b
SF:ody>HTTP/1.1\x20501\x20Not\x20Implemented\r\nContent-type:\x20t
SF:ext/html\r\nConnection:\x20close\r\n\r\nNot\x20Implemented
SF:

The\x20server\x20either\x20does\x20not\x20recognise\x2
SF:0the\x20request\x20method,\x20or\x20it\x20lacks\x20the\x20ability\x20to
SF:\x20fulfill\x20the\x20request.

ā€)%r(RTSPRequest,195,"
SF:HTTP/1.1\x20400\x20Bad\x20Request\r\nContent-type:\x20text/html\r\nCon
SF:nection:\x20close\r\n\r\nBad\x20Request

Yo
SF:ur\x20browser\x20sent\x20a\x20bad\x20request

HTTP/1.1
SF:\x20501\x20Not\x20Implemented\r\nContent-type:\x20text/html\r\nConnecti
SF:on:\x20close\r\n\r\nNot\x20Implemented

The
SF:\x20server\x20either\x20does\x20not\x20recognise\x20the\x20request\x20m
SF:ethod,\x20or\x20it\x20lacks\x20the\x20ability\x20to\x20fulfill\x20the\x
SF:20request.

")%r(FourOhFourRequest,24,ā€œError\x20unexpe
SF:cted\x20end\x20of\x20transmissionā€)%r(Socks5,A2,ā€œHTTP/1.1\x20400\x20Ba
SF:d\x20Request\r\nContent-type:\x20text/html\r\nConnection:\x20close\r\n
SF:r\nBad\x20Request

Your\x20browser\x20sent
SF:x20a\x20bad\x20request

ā€)%r(Socks4,A2,ā€œHTTP/1.1\x2040
SF:0\x20Bad\x20Request\r\nContent-type:\x20text/html\r\nConnection:\x20clo
SF:se\r\n\r\nBad\x20Request

Your\x20browser\x
SF:20sent\x20a\x20bad\x20request

ā€)%r(GenericLines,A2,ā€œHT
SF:TP/1.1\x20400\x20Bad\x20Request\r\nContent-type:\x20text/html\r\nConne
SF:ction:\x20close\r\n\r\nBad\x20Request

Your
SF:\x20browser\x20sent\x20a\x20bad\x20request

ā€)%r(RPCChe
SF:ck,A2,ā€œHTTP/1.1\x20400\x20Bad\x20Request\r\nContent-type:\x20text/html
SF:\r\nConnection:\x20close\r\n\r\nBad\x20Request

Your\x20browser\x20sent\x20a\x20bad\x20request

ā€);
MAC Address: E8:D2:A4:48:90:20 (Unknown)
No exact OS matches for host (If you know what OS is running on it, see Nmap OS/Service Fingerprint and Correction Submission Page ).
TCP/IP fingerprint:
OS:SCAN(V=7.70%E=4%D=1/12%OT=21%CT=1%CU=31098%PV=Y%DS=1%DC=D%G=Y%M=E8D2A4%T
OS:M=61DF5BEF%P=arm-unknown-linux-gnueabihf)SEQ(SP=10%GCD=1%ISR=5D%TI=I%CI=
OS:I%TS=U)SEQ(SP=16%GCD=1%ISR=5D%TI=I%CI=I%II=RI%SS=O%TS=U)OPS(O1=M5B4%O2=M
OS:5B4%O3=M5B4%O4=M5B4%O5=M5B4%O6=M5B4)WIN(W1=FAF0%W2=FAF0%W3=FAF0%W4=FAF0%
OS:W5=FAF0%W6=FAF0)ECN(R=Y%DF=N%T=FF%W=FAF0%O=M5B4%CC=N%Q=)T1(R=Y%DF=N%T=FF
OS:%S=O%A=S+%F=AS%RD=0%Q=)T2(R=N)T3(R=Y%DF=N%T=FF%W=FAF0%S=O%A=S+%F=AS%O=M5
OS:B4%RD=0%Q=)T4(R=Y%DF=N%T=FF%W=FAF0%S=A%A=S%F=AR%O=%RD=0%Q=)T5(R=Y%DF=N%T
OS:=FF%W=FAF0%S=A%A=S+%F=AR%O=%RD=0%Q=)T6(R=Y%DF=N%T=FF%W=FAF0%S=A%A=S%F=AR
OS:%O=%RD=0%Q=)T7(R=Y%DF=N%T=FF%W=FAF0%S=A%A=S+%F=AR%O=%RD=0%Q=)U1(R=Y%DF=N
OS:%T=FF%IPL=38%UN=0%RIPL=G%RID=G%RIPCK=G%RUCK=G%RUD=G)IE(R=Y%DFI=S%T=FF%CD
OS:=S)

Network Distance: 1 hop
Service Info: Device: webcam; CPE: cpe:/h:sanyo:vcc-hd2300

OS and Service detection performed. Please report any incorrect results at Nmap OS/Service Fingerprint and Correction Submission Page .
Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 199.51 seconds

:thinking: there seems to be an HTTP server listening on 8080. Have you tried pointing your browser to http://192.168.80.1:8080 ?
And 554 is used for RTSP like the 2450GPS and Journey but the path might have changed.
BTW you didnā€™t scan the full port range with that command, youā€™d have to add -p1-65535 to the parameters (it will take a while).
Port 21 is open too. Have you tried with an FTP client?
To sniff WiFi with wireshark/tcpdump youā€™d have to put the card on monitor mode, idk if the RPi supports that.
Alternatively you can try setting up a fake AP for the app to connect to.

Yes, I tried and it just times out on 8080. Iā€™m guessing itā€™s probably some sort of proprietary command set wrapped in http, given the response that nmap produced contains a stock error message saying ā€œYour browser sent a bad requestā€ although that may be what nmap does to try and determine OS. Maybe you know for sure what itā€™s doing? Iā€™m a little to busy to dig it out.

Sorry, I just entered the nmap command as you specified. Iā€™ll rerun everything and try to connect to FTP 21 as well and see if I can get at an RTSP stream with VLC and the /media/stream2 url as well.

Haha that was why I said Iā€™d do the wiresharking another time as Iā€™m aware that Iā€™ll have some setup to tackle lol. Apparently prolific mode is available on wired ports but Iā€™m not sure about wireless. I checked today and Amazon wants it postmarked by Feb 1 for return so I have some time.

I also just scanned the Ardupilot developer page for the Sky Viper and see a technique for having the Sky Viper attach as a station to an AP by putting a text file on the sdcard with AP details. I may try doing that as well as it might be something the techs would want to be consistent across all firmware. Iā€™ll try it on my Ardupilot journey too so that I know it works there. Nice to have both units at the same time. WHich reminds me I should do a full nmap scan on it too while Iā€™m at it.

Okay so if thereā€™s anything else you can think of let me know. It will be few days before I get back to it. Cheers!

Set up your Pi as an access point with the same name as the JourneySE, start sniffing and let the app connect to it.

TBH I think Iā€™m almost done with this drone as Iā€™ve answered the question of whether it was hardware compatible enough for a simple firmware set swap. This was when I wasnā€™t sure Iā€™d ever get a non-SE unit. To me, the SE is looking like any other manufacturerā€™s drone now that I know itā€™s not so easy. As I mentioned above, I canā€™t even get the SE app youā€™re suggesting I use (without jumping through some hoops). Iā€™m grateful that SkyRocket released the original ArduPilot products and I realise that the low end drone market is brutal (local hobby shop wonā€™t carry ANY quads but DJI) so I respect their SkyRocketā€™s attempt to pivot. And maybe what weā€™ve done here so far will help them because they wonā€™t get unnecessary tech support calls from people who are confused, especially if a used unit they get/buy without packaging isnā€™t working as expected. Iā€™m curious but definitely not enough to keep it and try porting to it. And, as new, itā€™s too expensive to keep for parts, but at least knowing what Iā€™m looking at will help me if a used/broken one comes along for cheap.

P.S. Iā€™ve solved my 5.8G problem by ordering a $4 USB dual band WiFi dongle but who knows when that will show lol although I guess theirā€™s no guarantee that it will do monitor/prolific mode. Although probably not necessary for this.

A telling description taken from an ad on Kijiji that showed up yesterday:

ā€œJourney Pro Video Drone. Excellent working condition. Tried a couple of times but too advanced for my son.ā€

Odds are it wonā€™t, you shouldā€™ve checked that before buying. But you could raise the fake AP at 2.4GHz and the app probably wonā€™t care if itā€™s not 5.8G and will try to connect, then listen for connection attempts.
Thereā€™s a chance the thing can speak MAVlink, and we donā€™t know for sure if itā€™s running some version of ArduPilot on the FC.
When you connect thru WiFi with the Journey you are not connecting to the FC but to the companion board.
It may be that they couldnā€™t source anymore the Sonix board and had to replace it with something else, but the FC is maybe the same.

I think it would have allowed me to connect to the AP of the SE which then would have given me access to the not-sonic board for more testing. As it was I couldnā€™t even see it from my windows box but Iā€™m assuming the cheapo dongle would have allowed a simple AP connection. I must say it annoyed me that I had to stop at that point so Iā€™m glad I will have 5.8G capabilities for when this type of thing happens. I didnā€™t even have wireless turned on because this box is wired.

Yes, the FC could well be ArduPilot but it could just as well be CleanFlight(ClearFlight?) as I think Iā€™ve read elsewhere. Itā€™s not hard to recompile existing code for different platforms especially if you already have a product line and expertise with a other FC software. Doing so means eventually not having to support multiple environments which can really simply (lower cost) tech support. Anyway I canā€™t even run the app or connect to it easily at the moment so I donā€™t think Iā€™m the guy to take this one any further. The SE isnā€™t even supposed to be available in Canada; I got it by mistake. Eventually someone will have one they actually own to dig into because they canā€™t return it. Iā€™ll just pick up a non-SE Journey used if I want another and spend time on the many other distractions of RC lol If things change Iā€™ll post here

Perhaps @Matt_M is still around to ask? The SkyRocket guy. Doubt itā€¦

Heheheā€¦ Iā€™m still here and lurk, but Iā€™m not of any use anymore, Iā€™m afraid.

I wasnā€™t even aware they were doing an SE versionā€¦ LOL.

Basically, the SkyViper team was let go after we launched Journey. I guess we did such a good job, they felt like we didnā€™t need to iterate further and they just planned for multiple years of churning out the same product over and over. From then on, it just becomes a game of ā€œlet China find a cheaper way to make itā€ and that tends to lead to cheaper parts that were promised to work ā€˜exactly like the originalā€™ but as we all knowā€¦ they do not.

The v2450 GPS was still the one Iā€™m most proud of. That had TaoGlass receivers, etc. The Journey performed well, but not AS good, due to the cheaper components. I have NO IDEA whatā€™s inside an ā€˜SEā€™.

Sorry!

-Matt

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Itā€™s a good craft, I still have one and fly it occasionally.

Sorry for doubting you, thanks for the reply!

Thanks for coming out of lurk mode and commenting! Great to get a little background. Nice job on all of it, BTW. But NOW you tell me that v2450 is better LOL! Good to know that I shouldnā€™t shy away from owning one. Shame they didnā€™t go upmarket instead of canning the team. It sounds to me like the whole ā€˜journeyā€™ :wink: would make a great business school case study.

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Itā€™s a good little craft for what it is. I quickly switched to a Orange DSM2 module and flew it with my Taranis, these days I have a Radiomaster which works equally well. Getting the protocol to operate is a bit fiddly but it works.

Does it fit inside? Because I was wondering what to do when I get a name brand transmitter. And, of course, what transmitter I should get. Iā€™m reluctant to go too crazy on a tx because Iā€™m not sure how deep Iā€™m going to get into RC yet. And Iā€™m more into robotics than the actual flying myself. Although that might change! Thatā€™s why Iā€™m starting with the SkyViper GPS units. Perfect to try flying and GC until I know better.

P.S. Amazon shipped the Journey Iā€™ve been waiting for this morning, from Californiaā€¦

The Multi Protocol Module in the Radiomaster supports the protocol directly with the existing receiver. Or a Multi Protocol JR bay module would work as does a Hobbyking Orange DSM2 module (if they still make that).

The video stream you can get on a laptop with Mission Planner although I never bother to use it.