Why I Dislike Using the Ardupilot Methodic Configurator

ArduCopter
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Ignoring the fact that the name itself grates on me (Methodic is not a word), I would like to explain why I dislike using this tool. I have been admonished on multiple occasions that the root of my quadcopter flight issues has to do with my not using this tool and that I risk losing control and crashing my aircraft because it wasn’t tuned using it. I have built and flown several multirotor aircraft with only the default settings, so I know that this is not necessarily true. But still, this tool is being touted as the go-to means to properly tune your multirotor. So why don’t I like it? Let me explain.

Before going into the tool itself, let me ask about the methodology. Suppose I have just completed a build; I have just flashed the firmware into my Pixhawk controller and now I’m ready to configure it. Do I begin with using Mission Planner and go through the setup/configuration/calibration steps, or do I jump right into the AMC? Does it make a difference which I way I go? Since the AMC is being pushed as a tool for tuning your aircraft, I chose to use M.P. first and go through all the setup/calibration steps. Having done so, I found some of the steps in the AMC to be unnecessary and do not contribute at all to proper tune, and in fact leads the user down paths that one doesn’t necessarily need tread. More on that later.

First of all, as a software tool, it is not ready for prime time. Downloading and installing seems to be hit and miss, depending how your computer is configured and what browser you’re using. I was unsuccessful using the Edge browser on my Dell laptop running Windows 11 Home edition but managed to get it to work after installing Chrome and using it instead of Edge. Secondly the user interface is clunky. One are guided through multiple pages, each one addressing a particular area such as ESC configuration, telemetry, etc. There is no back button to allow the user to go back to a previous page and correct a field that may have been incorrectly filled. Secondly, this is a tool that is like a Swiss Army knife that requires you to use the scissors, punch and screwdriver even though all you want to do is whittle a piece of wood. What do I mean by this?

I have built my Tarot quad and successfully calibrated it, but the maiden flight reveals “excessive oscillations”. Can the AMC fix that? IF so, then why does it need to know what telemetry protocol I’m using or what bus it’s connected to? Why does it need to know what protocol (sbus, ibus, etc.), my receiver is using? It is sufficient for me (and most other users), that I have plugged devices into the properly labelled port on the F.C. – I don’t need to know the underlying buses are and neither does the AMC for tuning purposes.

This leads me to believe that this tool needs to be redesigned – segment it into separate areas of concern. If all one wants to do is set up parameters that will promote a stable, controllable maiden flight then focus on that. If one wants to deal with ESC calibration, then make that a separate section. Oh, and regarding ESCs, what’s with this over emphasis on BLHeli ESCs? IS there a Pixhawk dependency on them? I’m using T-Motor Air 40A ESCs – No BLHeli architecture or firmware. I cannot calibrate them via M.P. and have to do them individually via direct connection to the receiver. Is this a problem? Nobody has ventured an answer, and I have found nothing in any documentation that I have found.

Overall, I am left guessing whether or not I have correctly entered all the information that the AMC requires to set up my F.C. for a successful maiden flight, and in fact I am suspicious that when done, I will still be plagued with “excessive oscillation” issues. But hey, I’m willing to get it a try. I don’t like it, but I will use it and I will document my journey. Stay tuned.

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calibrating non blheli escs is documented here

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The emphasis would be the ability to produce ESC RPM data either thru Bidirectional Dshot (best) or ESC Serial Telemetry (next best) as the reference for the Notch Filter. And the Notch Filter is a key component in achieving the best tune. You can use a throttle reference, which you will have to use with those ESC’s, which is OK but not the best. BLHeli firmware (S or 32) will provide this and so will AM32 firmware.

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I largely agree with your criticism and tend not to point new users toward the software for some of the reasons you have highlighted.

“Methodic” is technically a word, depending on which dictionary you consult. However, it has fallen from common use in favor of “methodical” in modern English. I prefer the software be renamed, but that fell on deaf ears.

Your continued insistence that default parameters are “fine” is simply ignorance (not meant in a derogatory way). If you were to share the .bin logs for those flights, it would almost certainly lead to a realization that the vehicle is not performing as well as you perceive it to be, and very likely, large improvements could be made that would increase margins and prevent issues/catastrophes.

Your download issue is one-off. There is nothing wrong with the download link or method. Your first attempt was interrupted, either by anti-virus or by a connection hiccup, and you struggled to overcome that, eventually settling for the nuclear option of installing a completely different browser. User misunderstanding of installed browser or anti-virus software is invalid criticism of this tool.

I do like the method that the tool follows. If you find yourself struggling with the software, it’s still worth following the overview outlined here while configuring and tuning.

Neither the AMC software nor the method presented in the link I shared will guarantee a perfect tune. The method is a means to an end, and you must continue using all tools available to achieve the best result possible. AMC won’t, by itself, reduce the oscillations observed during a bad maiden flight. It (or the underlying method) will, however, guide you toward discovering and resolving bad behavior.

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“Methodic” is technically a word, depending on which dictionary you consult. This was a nit, I admit.
Your download issue is one-off. There is nothing wrong with the download link or method. No, there was no interruption and no, I was not running any antivirus software. Maybe it was a fluke, and like I said, I had success once I installed the Chrome browser.

I do like the method that the tool follows. If you find yourself struggling with the software, it’s still worth [following the overview outlined here

Yes, I read the overview, and I had already followed the steps leading up to first flight. Bottom line, you can’t get to the part within the AMC concerning tuning until you first enter information, most of which, has nothing to do with tuning.

I shared a couple of data flash logs, and the feedback was “excess oscillations” and the implication was that I didn’t properly tune the aircraft using the AMC. So now that you concede that the AMC will not address the oscillation problems I’m experiencing, I feel that I wasted my time and see no value in using it. I will go back to defaults, make individual parameter changes specific to my configuration and try to get it to fly stable enough to run Autotune.

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I didn’t concede anything. I mostly agreed with you and pointed out that the method (whether followed within the software or manually) is a good one. But as another user already pointed out, be as stubborn as you wish. I don’t understand why everything is such an argument.

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If you are going to manual tune in preparation for Autotune then at least use the data previously collected to get close.
Reset to default.
Apply the Initial Tune Parameters in Mission planner by clicking the “Write to FC” button as you missed some of these before by entering them manually.
Set the Motor Ranges again Setting Motor Ranges
Set the Rate P&I values to .075 and the Rate D values to .0015 (half of default).
Set these based on the approximate hover thrust (will be adjusted later):
PSC_ACCZ_P, 0.15
PSC_ACCZ_I, 0.30

Take a laptop to your flying area.
Make a simple hover flight in Stabilize mode attempting to maintain hover for ~1 min. Do nothing more and Land manually. This craft should not be flown otherwise until the output oscillation is tamed.
Review the log for output oscillation. The example in 7.1.1 of the Methodic Configurator whether you use that tool or not is useful to understand what to look for. If you don’t want anything more to do with that tool here are the examples:

Oscillation (yours are worse):

Oscillation
Oscillation1953×593 149 KB

Oscillation fixed:

No oscillation
No oscillation1948×588 77.5 KB

Assuming the oscillation is tamed the next step is NOT Autotune it’s configuring the notch filter. Your basic levels of vibration are too high but that has been mentioned before.

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Along what others said. My option is that type of frame is not simple to tune as the arms tend to vibrate. If your using a dampener it makes it sloppy as well, Basically your running bad hardware. As a way to adjust the vibrations you can use this tool to get it stable before moving to the next steps.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YzIqk1vcG4 check it out. Use small steps only.

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Just one comment about that slider and what this pilot is experiencing. While that’s a perfectly fine way to adjust the ATC_RAT_PITCH/ROLL_P&I parameter values the oscillation this craft is experiencing is not at the relatively low frequency as shown in your simulation, which is typical of a smaller craft on defaults, but a higher frequency oscillation that can only be seen viewing the RC outputs from a flight log. Also, that slider does not adjust the D term which may in fact be a significant contributor to this issue.

Your “unibody” frames have a high level of rigidity which is absolutely desirable and the point you make about his frame relative to the types you build are certainly valid.

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:joy::rofl::joy:… methodic can be a real word. As long as the majority of people agree with the definition, it is a real word. It’s the same rule as for the word “ain’t”. Ain’t has always been a real word, and agreed in, tell the 1800’s, when the rich got upset about the average person using the word so they removed it from the dictionary. Hence the word “ain’t” is no longer a “real word”. Sorry hard to find anything useful from people trying to be grammar nazis.

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@FossilRider If I interpret your post correctly, the main reason for your frustration with this tool (and probably the very motivation for this post) was that people blamed you on multiple occasions for not using this tool.

Without knowing these occasions, I generally agree with you. While this tool can provide a good orientation even for experienced pilots (with experience comes carelessness), it doesn’t seem to be a de facto standard and people can’t really be blamed for not using it.

Or does ArduPilot have an official recommendation regarding the usage of this tool?

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Like explained in the README, the documentation and on the YouTube Video: You should start with default parameters and use the AMC software. Only use MP when explicitly instructed (on step 12 for instance).

You are not following the documented method nor the YouTube video. You did unrequested steps in MP, of course those same steps will seam redundant in AMC.

So that Telemetry works so that you can later do the compass dance without a USB cable on your way.

So that telemetry works correctly. Not all users connect telemetry to Telem1. Not all boards have a Telem1 label.

Because certain receivers and certain protocols need special settings.
Without knowing that AMC can not make informed parameter change decisions.
And without a correct RC connection you can not safely perform the first flight.

Yes, that is correct, I agree. But not all users do that and the tool is meant for all users and all copters, even the ones that connect the devices differently.
Is it that hard to tell it that you are using Telemetry on serial 1?

I agree with this, and I will try to make it easier in the future.

AMC is a tool for configuring and tuning. Not just for tuning. And you can only tune a correctly configured vehicle. That’s why the first steps are all about configuration.

That is a bad idea. To tune a misconfigured vehicle is a bad idea.
I’m working on making it feel more integrated and easier to use. The “simple” GUI complexity switch is the first step in that direction.

Some T-Motor ESCs do not need calibration as they have a fixed range. All you need to do is enter that range at the 07_esc step. Does the manufacturer documentation say it uses a fixed range?

Use step 16 to reduce the PID before the first flight to avoid that.

Yes the official ArduCopter wiki recommends it and here.
The tool is part of the ArduPilot project developed in the same github account

Let’s collaborate to make the user experience better.

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Constructive feedback is always welcome, but criticism not so much. After all someone has put 100s of hours developing the gui for free.

I also experience the same frustration 1st time but refrain from criticizing and quietly went back to MP configuration and tune the copter by simply reducing the gains and than auto tunning.

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Again, I have no idea what causes excessive oscillations and so far nobody has offered any clues. For the time being, I have retired my quad and will be rebuilding another with a different configuration - no third deck; I will mount the ESCs above the battery plate and the arms will be shorter though still longer than the stock arms in order to accommodate 17" props. This build will take awhile as I have to order parts from China and since I live in the U.S. I am waiting to see what Donnie Two Dolls is going to do with China tariffs.
Once I get it built and if it flies well then I will completely break down the other and rebuild it in the same fashion.

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I’m done with the AMC. My only motivation for using it was to arrive at a set of initial parameters that would give me a good chance of having a stable maiden flight, nothing more. Towards this end, the AMC shouldn’t need to know what protocols my telemetry modem and r/c receiver use, nor should it care where my external compass is positioned relative to the aircraft’s COG. It should be sufficient that I successfully did the IMU, radio and compass calibrations and that I can connect to M.P. via my telemetry modem. All of this other stuff, while may be important for some other endeavor, does not get me any closer to arriving at a set of initial PIDs for my quad.

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Not so. I told you to lower the rate PID’s further. And, the Vertical Acceleration Controller gains are too high. At default I’m sure. I also suggested you simply read section 7.1.1 of the Methodic Configurator doc “Check for Motor Output Oscillation”. Whether you use the Configurator or not is up to you but the text on the Configurator Webpage has examples to show oscillation so it can be identified and suggestions to fix it.

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Okay, I will look for that section and see if I can find any useful information that I can apply. But I will not be using the AMC.

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Constructive feedback:

For arriving at an initial set of PIDs for a successful maiden flight, the AMC should not need to know what protocols my receiver and telemetry modem uses, nor should it care where my external compass is relative to the aircraft COG. It should be sufficient that I successfully completed the initial calibrations.

Perhaps the AMC should be restructured so that it has steps pertinent to a specific goal.

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It is recommend to have telemetry available prior to the first flight so you can get feedback on flight controller state, especially arming checks. It also makes monitoring AUTOTUNE much easier.