Oscillations on low throttle

With my small FPV LR copter (7" props) I still have a tuning problem, that I could not sort out so far: on (very) low throttle, there is considerable twitching. The copter is defnitely overpowered, as most racers are and hovers at a very low throttle value (12%).

The twitching is there not only during descent, the same happens when suddenly reducing throttle during a rapid climb, while the vehicle is still moving upwards due to inertia in a zero-g situation. So I guess it is definitely not related to the dreaded vortex ring state often seen by heavier copters while descending in a hover.

The twitching is also very prominent when soaring down from altitude with a high forward airspeed and low throttle.

What I have tried so far:

  1. I tried to lower MOT_THST_EXPO after reading a few related threads here. But with 0.57 I still see the twitching.

  2. The MOT_SPIN_xxx params seem to have no real influence on this issue. Due to the BDShot ESCs used, the motor test even spins the props at 1% throttle. If have set MOT_SPIN_ARM to 7% for flying, as the props are fully stalled and do not create any noticeable lift below.

  3. An Autotune was done, just to be sure - again no change in behavior.

  4. Lowering the PIDs determined by AutoTune by 30% - the vehicle still flies fine, but same problem with low throttle oscillations.

Example log of a very short test flight with a few sharp throttle inputs in Stabilize flight mode: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17Awx_KF7N7A0RQlVTUXDat9MnZkGJg_D/view?usp=drive_link

Make sure you are using air mode

I do already - otherwise I might not have been able to lower the throttle that far in Stabilize.

Do the pwm outputs saturate at the lower level?

@amilcarlucas I am not 100% sure, to be honest:

MOT_PWM_MIN…MAX is set to 1000…2000. Lowest value in the graph is exactly 1070. However, this value is exactly MOT_PWM_MIN plus 7 %, which is in turn is MOT_SPIN_MIN.

I might try to do a test flight where I do not lower the throttle completely down to zero in the next days.

Was the vehicle flying while at that level? If yes, reduce MOT_SPIN_MIN and MOT_SPIN_ARM

I am a bit hesitant to go further down with MOT_SPIN_MIN. At 1% or 2% I can see the prop doing one rotation per second or so. It is defintely completely stalled and producing zero thrust here, at 5% as well. The value of 7% is the value where I begin to feel some kind of prop wash 5cm under the prop.

MOT_SPIN_ARM is at 2% already.

Try:

MOT_SPIN_ARM,0.02
MOT_SPIN_MIN,0.05

Tried that and there is indeed some improvement. The amplitude of the oscillations is smaller, and the new lowest value of RCOUT is - big surprise - 1050 now. However, the RCOUT signal does not look like there is some clipping at 1050. The oscillations are also more damped now, start later and stop sooner (just a gut/finger feeling). I am unable to trigger any oscillations when throttling down to 10% instead of 0%.

Unfortunately there is a catch, that I almost expected to happen: when suddenly throttling down at high forward airspeed, there is sometimes an uncommanded roll or pitch deviation now. I have seen this before and that was one of the reasons not letting the motors spin down to a speed that clearly stalls a prop.

Maybe there is a need for scaling the PIDs not only by battery voltage, but also by throttle output?

Currently that feature is not yet available. :frowning:

Maybe compromise with 0.06 ?

And reduce the slew max to avoid short stalls?