My Flight Test - Yikes!

I conducted a second flight test yesterday, and it was scary! I had a potential flyaway incident from which I was fortunately able to recover. Before describing what happened there was a prior incident that happened during an earlier test after switching out flight controllers from an APM to a Pixhawk 6C which might be relevant. I wanted to see if the motors would run more smoothly (with the APM they were not running in sync), and so I secured the quad to the basement floor by weighing it down with some ceramic tiles and then armed and throttled up the motors in the STABILIZE flight mode. As I gradually increased the throttle, all of a sudden, the motors ran up to full power and would not respond to my throttle commands. The quad started to lift off despite the tiles on the landing skids and I had to disarm the motors.

I posted this behavior to the Ardupilot community, and one guy said that it was because I had weighed down the aircraft; he said something about the Stabilize mode being “closed loop” and I somehow violated it by preventing the aircraft from moving. He assured me that it would be okay when I actually flew the aircraft. I didn’t buy his explanation, but I decided to go ahead with a flight test.

Now about yesterday’s flight. Prior to going out to the field, I had set a few parameters: LGR_RETRACT_ALT: 10 M and LGY_DEPLY_ALT: 8 M. And of course, I set the battery failsafe voltage to 21.5V and charged the lipo pack to 25.1V. Other parameters I had set: Geo Fence MAX Altitude 122 M (close to 400 feet), RTL_ALT 9 M.

For the test flight the following were my objectives:
Test ALT_HOLD flight mode to see if the quad would maintain altitude
Climb beyond 10 meters to see if landing gear retracts automatically
Exercise yaw, roll, pitch functions - check response to commands
Test RTL flight mode to test gps/compass functions and see if landing gear would automatically extend during landing.
Initially I had some trouble with the gimbal, which turned out to be that I had the camera mounted incorrectly. Once I got it fixed, set the camera to record, armed the motors and took off. Takeoff was smooth - no problems. Yaw and roll pitch seemed okay, so I switched to ALT_HOLD. The quad sorta held altitude, but the flight log showed a slight loss of altitude - I will need to goose the thrust percentage a tad.

Next, I climbed up and away in preparation to test RTL, but I noticed that the landing gear failed to retract automatically and I had to do it manually. I switched to RTL and the quad rose to 900 meters as programmed and began its descent for landing, The descent speed was really low - I will have to increase it a tad. But as it got really close to the ground the landing gear failed to extend, so I switched back to Stabilize in order to climb a bit and extend the landing gear manually. As I tried to throttle down to descend, it suddenly took off at full power and would not respond to my throttle commands. Fearing that it would climb out of sight, I switched flight mode back to RTL.

By this time, the aircraft had reached the geo fence ceiling. I don’t know if RTL was activated automatically or by my command - at any rate, it loitered a few seconds and began its slow descent back down. I let the autopilot maintain control while I watched. The landing gear was extended and it landed without mishap, at which point I disarmed the motors and breathed a sigh of relief.
I have zipped the folder containing the flight logs and put it in my Dropbox
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/29seymjluxw84oj4xzd7p/1.zip?rlkey=6y18st6iqgou08qag3evvsbwb&st=nm9qy4hp&dl=0
I hope someone can take a look and offer some advice. In the meantime, the aircraft will remain grounded until I decide what to do.

I think you have the pleasure of having a quad that is very highly powered. In general, I would say the quad did what it was told, while I appreciate that wasn’t what you wanted or expected.

When the quad was in Alt hold, there was a very slight descent, but controlled and not falling out of the sky. (much less than 1m/s)

Notice the throttle output is very low and the motor outputs are averaged below 1400. Probably closer to 1360-ish. Also notice the throttle was below half, also below 1400.

When the quad did it’s moon shot:

In stabilized mode the throttle is totally under your control. The stick is at mid point, throttle output is higher and the motors are running faster. So the quad climbed. It’s worth pointing out that as you pulled the throttle down the climb did level off, but I appreciate at over 100m that might have been very hard to see.

My gut reaction is to say that MOT_THST_HOVER is still to high at 0.125. The log suggests to me something like 0.06 (give or take) but I don’t have any experience setting one that low so I don’t know if that’s safe or not.

You should have bought the explanation but understood what was being stated 1st. It had nothing to to with Stabilize but everything to do with it being held in place and not in free flight. This is a basic principal, not a point of debate.

@Allister gives good explanation of what happened and it was expected behavior. Not much more to say about that. Learn to fly a high thrust/weight craft in Stabilize, it could save your craft some day.

The tune is very poor on this craft and you are asking for trouble. You should reset to default and use the Methodic Configurator to advance. The alternative is manual tuning but I don’t think you are prepared to do that.

But, if you want to ignore this advice and perhaps have a craft you can handle set these:
MOT_THST_HOVER,0.06 (@Allister is right)
PSC_ACCZ_P, 0.06
PSC_ACCZ_I,0.12

Then perhaps you won’t have oscillating outputs like these you have now:

Then read this and do it: Setting Motor Ranges

What do you think about bringing MOT_THST_HOVER to 0.06 or there abouts? Is it reasonable to go that low with it given how this appears to be powered?

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Yes, I was writing what you suggested when you posted. The craft will be a handful but it can for sure be tuned. If this was my craft I would have weighed it w/o the battery and then bought a 6S battery of a weight that would produce a desirable thrust/weight. It’s what I always do.

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MOT_THST_HOVER shouldn’t allow values below 0.125. I suspect if you intentionally set one that low, that it will revert to 0.125. Might be worth testing to confirm, but I recall a discussion with Leonard to that effect.

Right. It will not learn a value below .125 but you can set it manually. I have a few craft in that range.

Flatlines

Thanks all, I will take some time to digest all this and see what I can do to use the configurator to get better PIDS. I did go with the defaults unless they changed when I entered the lipo capacity, prop size, etc.

That you did correctly I noticed. A good1st step that The Configurator would have taken you thru.

Guys, I have started entering data into the configurator but also reviewing all your comments and will make suggested changes. I’m currently looking at the documentation on setting the motor ranges and will proceed from there. I’m still worried about any sudden unintentional thrust increases and will lower the geo fence ceiling before taking it out again.

I think I found the cause of the sudden unintentional rapid climb. Iwas going through the documentation, setting the Spin-Armed and Min Throttle procedure and fund a section concerning vibration. Under the section titled Impact of High Vibrations, there is the comment: “This leads to “clipping” and means the EKF cannot accurately calculate its climb rate or vertical acceleration. This can lead to the vehicle becoming unable to control its climb rate and, in severe situations, can lead to the vehicle climbing rapidly at full throttle.”

Now, I need to determine the cause of my vibrations and eliminate it.

Did you graph the vibrations? See any clipping?
Vibe>Vibex,y,z and clip.
Measuring vibration

A clue. There is no Vibe problem and what you experienced was not unintentional. If you don’t believe the reason that was given in the above posts then believe this if you know what you are looking at.

I just added a note to section 7.1 (first flight) about setting the MOT_THST_HOVER for high powered copters. So @FossilRider Use the latest version of the Methodic Configurator and read the documentation that it presents you in the browser and you will be fine.

In order to try to minimize vibrations, I added some foam underneath the Pixhawk, made sure that the propellers are balanced and once again tried running the quad in my basement with the propellers mounted upside down to generate negative thrust. Here is the result of my static tests:
Click here.

I will go through the parameters once again and go through the configurator before attempting another test flight.

I’ll be blunt: You’re making a mistake. Vibrations are not the problem and if you introduce too much foam or other damping you are risking introducing problems.

From your original flight log:

Most vibes below 10, other than a couple of peaks. It’s not broke. Don’t fix it.

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You are barking up the wrong tree.

What value do you attribute to this test?

Okay, I will go along with your assertion that I do not have an excessive vibration problem, but something caused an uncommanded full power climb that was arrested by switching flight modes to RTL. Based on my last static test with the propellers mounted upside down in order to generate negative thrust, I feel better that it won’t happen again. But just in case, I’ve lowered the geofence ceiling for my next test flight.

I have gone through the configurator as well as the Initial Parameter Setup (where I specify airscrew size and battery cellcount); I think kthat I’m ready for another test flight as soon as the weather improves. But I do have one question concerning landing gear setup.

I do not know what value to set for the parameter LGR_DEPLOY_PIN. Mission Planner says to consult the Wikis GPIO’s page to find the correct value for the f.c. I’m using (Holybro PIxhawk 6C); I have failed to find any such Wiki page - can someone point me to it, or tell me what value I should use? I’m using Ch 7 to manually deploy the landing gear. Other than that I think I’m ready to go. Thanks again all for your help!

Do you have a landing detection switch?
If you want to know about GPIO configuration go here GPIO

I did find that documentation but didn’t seem to apply to my situation. There is no landing detection switch - all I have is the means to retract/extend the landing gear via a toggle switch on my transmitter that is mapped to Ch 7. which is in turn mapped to Landing gear in Mission Planner. I can manuallyl control the landing gear but was hoping to have the controller retract when the quad climbed above 10 meters and extend the landing gear when it descended below 8 meters. I Guess I Can live with doing it manually.

Then that parameter is of no use to you.

This is basic functionality if configured properly.